discuss Does Europe Need the United States Anymore?

[Pete Griffin]

For decades, Europe and the U.S. have been tied together through NATO, trade, and diplomacy. But does Europe still need the US, or is it time to go its own way?

The EU has strengthened, some European countries are boosting defense budgets, and global power dynamics are shifting. The US remains a dominant force, but is its role in Europe as essential as it once was?

Some things to consider:

• Is NATO outdated, or does Europe still need US military backing?
• Can Europe sustain economic and technological growth without American investment?
• How do Russia, China, and other global threats factor into this?
• Would a more independent Europe improve or weaken transatlantic relations?

What’s your take? Should Europe stand on its own, or is the US still a necessary partner?

 

[Shawn]

I think NATO might not be as powerful and monetized without the United States.

IMO, Europe needs us and we need Europe. We've always been good allies. Sure, you all should pay your fair share, too. Some countries are freeloaders and it's not right. Some countries need to step up and be the World First Responder like we always have.

But I think we all need each other.

 

[Jason]

I think Europeans resent being weak, so this the chance to show the world otherwise.

 

[Harsh World]

What’s your take? Should Europe stand on its own, or is the US still a necessary partner?

If Europe had to stand on its own, you could kiss all the social programs goodbye. You only have free education and cheap medical care because of the US.



Which countries can pick up that $860 billion slack, or even close to it?

But I think we all need each other.

More for checks and balances than anything.

I think Europeans resent being weak, so this the chance to show the world otherwise.

They needed the US for WWI and for WWII. If they want a WWIII, shine on. However, the US couldn't let Russia and China dominate, so again, we'd have to come to the rescue.

 

[Jason]

If Europe had to stand on its own, you could kiss all the social programs goodbye. You only have free education and cheap medical care because of the US.

Even just one nation achieved military dominance way back. It was Germany. Sorry, scary example, though.

 

[Harsh World]

Even just one nation achieved military dominance way back. It was Germany. Sorry, scary example, though.

And how'd that work out for them in the end? Both times?

Is the third time the charm?

 

[Jason]

And how'd that work out for them in the end? Both times?

Is the third time the charm?

The first go around seemed to just be a power struggle against Britain and they couldn't handle a competing power, even after fighting France for centuries.

 

[Alamson]

Europe needs the US, no doubt. Europe should be committed to defending and developing Europe before seeking outside help. They commit more resources rather than relying on the US.

 

[Jason]

Europe has a good reason to fear Russia. I mean, are people blind to history? Russia controlled half of Europe in the 20th century, lol.

And now the anti-globalists, so to speak, are buddies with Putin, and while they have a right to hate Bill Gates and Covid tyranny, they can't see the evil in Putin or Trump.

 

[Ashake]

I think NATO might not be as powerful and monetized without the United States.

IMO, Europe needs us and we need Europe. We've always been good allies. Sure, you all should pay your fair share, too. Some countries are freeloaders and it's not right. Some countries need to step up and be the World First Responder like we always have.

It is true that NATO has been relying on the US for quite a long time but we should also note that the European countries have also put in effort to increase their defense. They have invested a lot into it which means that the EU have started to take ownership of its security.

I think Europeans resent being weak, so this the chance to show the world otherwise.

The European Union has started to make moves to be responsible for its own defense and I think that is what they are doing right now. Based on my observation, the EU has the economic and political will to become a major global player

If Europe had to stand on its own, you could kiss all the social programs goodbye. You only have free education and cheap medical care because of the US.

That's a very simple view of the situation. I have seen many European countries support their social welfare system tremendously without the US aid. This tells us that it is not just about US protection, but it also entails taking responsibilities to give values. The US is not the alpha and omega. Are they?

 

[Jason]

The European Union has started to make moves to be responsible for its own defense and I think that is what they are doing right now. Based on my observation, the EU has the economic and political will to become a major global player

This is a good by-product of Trump's garbage. We can say at least one good thing came out of it.

 

[Harsh World]

That's a very simple view of the situation. I have seen many European countries support their social welfare system tremendously without the US aid.

No, you haven't, because European countries are dependent on the US' defense budget. Without that military support, they would have to pay out a lot more and rebalance the budget, making those social cuts necessary.

I posted this before, but imagine if each country had to pay its fair share.



If all 32 countries had to pay the $1.3 trillion equally, that's $40.6 billion per country. Only two countries pay more than their fair share already. However, I'm unsure some countries could even afford that without major cuts, or afford it at all.

 

[Deep38]

For decades, Europe and the U.S. have been tied together through NATO, trade, and diplomacy. But does Europe still need the US, or is it time to go its own way?

The EU has strengthened, some European countries are boosting defense budgets, and global power dynamics are shifting. The US remains a dominant force, but is its role in Europe as essential as it once was?

Some things to consider:

• Is NATO outdated, or does Europe still need US military backing?
• Can Europe sustain economic and technological growth without American investment?
• How do Russia, China, and other global threats factor into this?
• Would a more independent Europe improve or weaken transatlantic relations?

What’s your take? Should Europe stand on its own, or is the US still a necessary partner?

Europe has grown stronger, but U.S. partnership remains vital for security and global stability. However, increased European independence can balance power and enhance transatlantic cooperation in a shifting world.

 

[Jason]

No, you haven't, because European countries are dependent on the US' defense budget. Without that military support, they would have to pay out a lot more and rebalance the budget, making those social cuts necessary.

I posted this before, but imagine if each country had to pay its fair share.

View attachment 1034

If all 32 countries had to pay the $1.3 trillion equally, that's $40.6 billion per country. Only two countries pay more than their fair share already. However, I'm unsure some countries could even afford that without major cuts, or afford it at all.

Well, they got to do what they got to do, because of the current situation created by the US.

My only worry now is that the US will harass Europe and harass Canada's shipping routes connecting them to Europe. What's the probability of that, lol?

 

[Pete Griffin]

If all 32 countries had to pay the $1.3 trillion equally, that's $40.6 billion per country. Only two countries pay more than their fair share already. However, I'm unsure some countries could even afford that without major cuts, or afford it at all.

Just a point of order, how much of that budget is used to defend the United States and US interests overseas? If that was removed from the equation, suddenly there isn't such a big hole to fill. You're working on the basis that the other NATO members must cover ALL of the US costs.

Department of Defence Fiscal Year 2025 budget request includes $2.9 billion to enhance U.S. military presence and readiness in Europe, $625.6 million for NATO military operations and $434 million for the NATO Security Investment Program. That is a total of $4billion. A far cry from the $1.3 trillion. Could European nations cover $4billion AND still maintain their social welfare programs? Sure.

US strategic nuclear forces provide a nuclear umbrella for Europe and that must make up an enormous portion of the military budget. France has nukes and the UK has nukes. Not many, but enough to obliterate St. Peterburg and Moscow. That's 13% of Russia's population in two targets.

 

[Shawn]

They have invested a lot into it which means that the EU have started to take ownership of its security.

And that's not always the smart thing to do.

The US is a democracy (for now), which means different parties with different agendas can be in control. No sovereign nation should completely rely on another nation with its own interests to protect them forever.

 

[Jason]

I think the US should limit itself to the Caribbean, Arctic, eastern Pacific, and western Atlantic.

And I see racism (sorry for the R word), but you see how they won't stay out of the western Pacific, but they're eager to abandon Europe